What If Your Pregnancy is Wrong? And Other Tough Choices

12974103 Responseshttp%3A%2F%2Fwww.stratejoy.com%2F2011%2F10%2Fmaking-tough-choices-what-if-your-pregnancy-goes-wrong%2FWhat+If+Your+Pregnancy+is+Wrong%3F+And+Other+Tough+Choices2011-10-13+16%3A00%3A45Dustihttp%3A%2F%2Fwww.stratejoy.com%2F%3Fp%3D12974 to “What If Your Pregnancy is Wrong? And Other Tough Choices”

• Najela Says:
  October 13th, 2011 at 8:20 am

  I'm just curious to know what you would define as being a birth defect? Unfortunately, I know waaaayy too many people who are considered "normal" who don't contribute to the world.

  I work with kids that have autism, but I can't imagine having a child that has autism myself. It takes an incredible amount of patience and love. But If I were to have a child with autism (or any other disability), I'd keep it because I want to ensure that they have a good life and are raised to my morals and standards. I wouldn't get tested for anything like that and take it one step at a time, like people do with most kids.

  It's all just a numbers game. You can't just assume that just because somebody has a disability doesn't mean that they won't be independent. You can't assume that just because somebody doesn't have a disability means that they'll be independent. It takes an incredible amount of creativity and innovation to raise a child at any level of development, but to just assume that a disability would hinder a child from being a capable member or living well is all just an assumption. Just because you don't think a child can live well on your own terms, doesn't mean that they can't live well. And what does living well mean anyway? You might have a normal child who considers living well to be completely different from what you envisioned, despite you raising them to be a certain way.

  Though you do bring up a lot of interesting discussions that people might need to have with autism and other things being on the rise, but having kids in general is a big responsibility, whether they have a disability or not.

• Casey Says:
  October 13th, 2011 at 9:14 am

  I for one sincerely appreciate your candor. I have not had any children yet but often think about what I would do in a similar situation. I think I would likely get the amnio and go from there. But then again, I don't know. That causes risks in and of itself. What difficult decisions! And kudos to you for bringing them and the conversation to the forefront. The topics of disease, adoption, abortion etc are all too often tip-toed around and spoken about only in hushed conversations with girlfriends. But hey, that's what we all are here for…. connections with girlfriends who are going through situations which we have, will, or are currently going through. Know this: you are not alone!

• Hellie Says:
  October 13th, 2011 at 9:16 am

  I wonder if or how this sentiment might change once you held your newborn, irreversibly defected baby, in your arms.

  I also wonder how many US families are looking to adopt a severely mentally disabled baby domestically. What if your baby was placed on a waiting list?

• ~K~ Says:
  October 13th, 2011 at 9:17 am

  I'd like to start off with saying how BRAVE this post was. I'm not a mama yet, but it's one of my very biggest dreams….and I've often wondered about this. The "what if"….Could I handle it? Would I be the kind of mother I'd hoped to be, would it change everything I'd imagined and hoped for myself/my family?

  I often think people just don't fully know until the moment you really have to decide…I bond so very quickly to those closest to me, I often think after carrying a child to term, I'd feel I would have no other option but to love and cherish and raise that baby…..but on the other side of the coin I always wonder if I would have doubts, if I'd feel selfish, if I'd have chosen another path if I could have… When the time comes there will definitely be conversations to be had with my partner about what we want for ourselves and our lives and our family…conversations about what we can manage. But for me, I know that probably my true answer will only come if and when it has to…….

  I thought this post and your stance were a courageous public statement as well as a deep understanding of yourself….. and isn't that what Stratejoy is supposed to be all about? Deep self reflection, love and understanding.

• Renee Says:
  October 13th, 2011 at 9:19 am

  This isn't just politically incorrect, it's downright offensive.

• Jenn Says:
  October 13th, 2011 at 9:53 am

  I agree with Renee. This is really terrible and heartbreaking. I hope for your child's sake that they turn out healthy.

• Tahnie Says:
  October 13th, 2011 at 10:01 am

  If you were in an accident that left you disabled, would you want your family to abandon you and give YOU up for adoption? If you experienced injuries that left you so you could no longer be independent, would you want your loved ones to give up on you and say they just "couldn't handle it"?

• Renee Says:
  October 13th, 2011 at 11:14 am

  You already have a child, right? How will you feel if that child, with full mental abilities, CHOOSES not to contribute productively to society?

• Jenn Says:
  October 13th, 2011 at 11:51 am

  I couldn't disagree more and I'm appalled that people are DEFENDING this post by calling it brave and courageous. I would say that it would be more brave or courageous to accept that baby as your own and raise it to the best of your abilities. But that's my opinion.

  I'm sure other people make this decision in the world, and we just don't hear about it. But this is not a progressive issue that should be brought to light and discussed for the purpose of enlightenment and understanding. It's not brave, it's cowardly.

• Lauriane Says:
  October 13th, 2011 at 12:30 pm

  Hey everyone, well don't be too harsh on Dusti… I won't say whether I agree with her or disagree, I'd just like to mention that this kind of post will obviously shock some people, but it is also necessary. I mean, some people are pro abortion, others are profoundly against it. And it's okay. Some believe in God, others don't. And it's okay. Some have one political view, others have another one. Some have certain beliefs, others believe something else… and it's all okay I guess, what is mature and smart here is to confront opinions to make things move forward, to encourage people to question themselves about difficult matters, and to discuss it with others to be sure to make the decision that is right for YOU instead of burying our heads in the sand.

  So whether or not you agree with Dusti is not the question, I guess what is important to remember is that discussing things and not being shy about debating grave questions is GOOD. It's necessary. We all need to keep an open mind and remember that there are as many opinions as there is people… and it's being responsible to talk about things, it's okay.

  I guess Dusti brought up that particular subject because it is an important question at this stage in her life, but it could have been anything about politics, religion, any kind of beliefs, and it would have created a debate anyway! and that's a good thing!!

  Love you all Tribettes, whatever your point of view is!

• Andrew Says:
  October 13th, 2011 at 12:38 pm

  It's not politically incorrect it's just self-obsessed. As a father of two healthy kids I can't begin to understand how you could be so concerned about your own life and expectations that you could give away your child. I'm not sure why you want a child if it has to be perfect in your eyes before you want to look after it. It might be a good idea to think about why you decided to have children in the first place….

• WitchWords Says:
  October 13th, 2011 at 1:01 pm

  On the one hand, I understand needing to know and acknowledge one's own limits, and I respect that. I know that not everyone has the resources – financial, social, emotional, physical, or otherwise – to cope with the extra issues raising a child with a disability brings. I would never want to shame someone for acknowledging that about themselves and being honest with themselves – I know I personally, if I ever lost my mind and decided to have a kid (sorry, I'm vehemently childfree, but for the sake of the hypothetical), I absolutely would get every test I could, and if it turned out the baby was going to have a disability, I'd abort the pregnancy, because I myself am semi-disabled and I know I couldn't handle raising a kid who was, too.

  But on the other hand, two things jumped out at me – one, the assumptions made about independence and contribution, and two, the choice to put the child up for adoption.

  A child being disabled doesn't inherently mean they will be non-productive, non-contributing, or remain dependent on their parents forever. It sounds like you've got some seriously fucked-up notions (understandable, given how the culture we live in treats disability and disabled people, but desperately inaccurate and deeply insulting nonetheless) about disabled people. There's a huge spectrum from high-functioning and independent with the help of certain small accommodations, all the way to needing constant caregiving all their lives. And you don't know, just from a prenatal diagnosis, where a given individual will end up on that spectrum. To label your hypothetical disabled baby as "in all likelihood would never be independent. And even if they were, they wouldn’t be able to live well" is just…wrong. You toss in a lip-service caveat of "I know they're not *all* like that" but there's no indication that you actually believe that, because you still treat your hypothetical disabled child as if they're automatically going to be dependent and non-contributing all their life. This is not accurate, and it's a deeply insulting stereotype that fuels our culture's crappy treatment and view of people with disabilities. Please, do your research before you make huge decisions like this based on stereotypes.

  As to putting it up for adoption: do you have any kind of realistic idea how screwed-up the adoption system in this country is? You put a disabled child in the system, they will quite likely never get out. The market for "severely mentally disabled" children, even infants, is pathetically small. You want to talk about playing the odds, chucking a disabled kid into the system is definitely playing the odds – and the odds you're giving your child are terrible.

  Honestly, seeing this sort of ableism at Stratejoy is kind of painful. I wish you well with your pregnancy, though – and I hope, for your child's sake, that he or she comes out perfect enough for you.

• Michele Says:
  October 13th, 2011 at 1:33 pm

  Your blog post hurt to the core because I am one of the limited people you speak of. For one who is weak in body, may have tremendous inner strength.

  I know that a perfect child is the ultimate desire of parents. But "Perfection" is an illusion. Ask anyone who is raising healthy teenagers.

  In the midst of raising me, my parents strength grew leaps and bounds. My life has brought unexpected joy to my family, friends, and community. I contribute to the world through my generous heart.

  Please don't sell yourself short. You strike me as a courageous person who would never run away from a major life challenge.
  Blessings!

• gracekboyle Says:
  October 13th, 2011 at 2:35 pm

  This was exactly my thought process. I'm not sure I can justify this post and I do commend you for speaking about it, but I am dismayed at the lack of heart and willingness just because it is too much to "deal" with, to abandon something you nurtured and create yourself.

  Another point is that where would you put your baby up for adoption? If you don't want to keep the baby, is there a big market for this? It's very likely they won't be put to a good home and that they would be worse off, you being okay with that.

  Only thing I will say is that these are questions we should ask ourselves. I disagree wholeheartedly with your opinion, and just know that everyone deserves a chance. I wouldn't be easy, but I would always keep, nurture, protect and love my child. Regardless.

• Natasha Hollerup Says:
  October 13th, 2011 at 2:39 pm

  After much thought, I decided that I couldn't look at this post without saying something.

  I'm saddened by the words here. This isn't from some teenage girl who doesn't know about birth control. When a person reaches past the age of 21, some knowledge about that has caught on and there is always a possibility that a child may not be born some immaculate human being. Before making a choice like throwing an innocent child to foster care because of some special need, don't get pregnant.

  As a woman who wants a child (no matter what) and is over the age of 21, this post isn't right. It shouldn't be up in a place where women come to get help. This blogger should check her priorities and use birth control so she won't have to be faced with what appears to be an inconvenience to her.

• lolasangria Says:
  October 13th, 2011 at 2:40 pm

  I think many people are jumping to conclusions that Dusti did not make in her post. She said nowhere that she will only accept a perfect child. She stated her feelings on her inability to handle raising a child with severe mental disabilities that may never be able to care for him or herself. That's a very different thing than genetically engineering a perfect, problem free baby. Also, it's perfectly fair to continue to be concerned about your own life as a parent – you can't be a good parent if you don't also take care of yourself and your needs. Throwing barbs at Dusti about being self-obsessed or otherwise cruel isn't any sort of conversation, it's childish namecalling.

  All of that said, I also appreciate Renee's email and some further thought and discussion on ableism and some of the thoughts of the other commenters diving deeper into the issue. It's certainly murky, complicated, and divisive, and worthy of further discussion and education.

• Brittany Says:
  October 13th, 2011 at 2:59 pm

  This post is disgusting and discriminating in so many ways. If you're so concerned about having a perfect child, why even take the chance and have a child at all? Children are not an item of clothing. You can't toss them aside because there is something you don't like about them. When you make the decision to have a child, you make a commitment. It's scary. And nerve wracking. But you made that choice. And part of that choice is raising your child on your own. There are so many shitty parents in this world as is. How unfortunate for your other children that they have such high expectations to live up to, that they constantly have to strive to be perfect. Because in your eyes, that's apparently the only acceptable kind of child.

• Ev`Yan Says:
  October 13th, 2011 at 3:05 pm

  Everyone is entitled to their opinion. This I know.

  I would like to know, however, what this post has to do with "fresh strategies for real joy"?

  I know how much this must have put you in a hard place, Molly. And yes, censoring someone because you disagree with their point of view is not the best thing to do… but it is the right thing. First & foremost, this is YOUR home, Molly; your sacred place to speak your truth amongst other women who are likeminded & like-goaled. Refusing to publish it would have been in the realm of The Right Thing to Do. Absolutely.

  Not just because this post was especially heinous (there are some things you should not say out loud, even if you "don't care how politically incorrect it is"), but because this was absolutely irrelevant to the legacy you're trying to create here.

  I'm not trying to condemn anyone. I respect you thoroughly, Molly & can only imagine what a tough spot this put you in. I just wanted to remind you of YOUR power & of your authority. This is your precious internet space. No one should be allowed to spout prejudice intolerance in your home, even if it's "their opinion."

  This post did not leave me with feelings of joy. It left a bad taste in my mouth.

• Carmen Says:
  October 13th, 2011 at 3:08 pm

  Three thoughts (this is my first and probably last time on this site)… first – if you can't accept a child for all they may or may not bring to this world, then don't have a child. Period.

  Second – I have a friend with a daughter with Down Syndrome and she is one of the spunkiest little girls I've ever known… her parents are blessed to have her.

  Third… and it's been mentioned before… I know a lot of "normal and able" people who contribute less to society than those Dusti has deemed "unable". There is so much more to being a contributing member of society than an "ability" to function at what Dusti has deemed being "independent".

  Just my two cents.

• Cait Says:
  October 13th, 2011 at 3:18 pm

  The issue I have with this is that, in conceiving and having a child, you are making a commitment. If you become pregnant and realize that you are incapable of taking care of any child – one who is disabled or not – then yes, adoption is an acceptable option. But this pick-and-choose attitude is what bugs me here. In my opinion, it is selfish to say you can handle the responsibility of a normal, healthy child, but if there's disability involved, then it's too much. I can understand the fear of not having enough time/strength to handle something like that, but the idea that you would give up a child with a disability is something I personally can't wrap my mind around.

  What's more is, what happens if you keep the child and it turns out he/she has a disability that doesn't present itself for a few years? Or what if, at any age, an accident occurs that causes a disability? I'm guessing that you would love and care for that child, in which case, it seems wholly unfair to abandon a child at birth simply because he/she is a newborn and no familial attachments have been made yet.

• Stephanie Says:
  October 13th, 2011 at 3:24 pm

  Ok, I am going to try to comment on this being as open-minded as possible, and I am struggling to hold back judgement. Let me say that you statement that offends me the most would be this- "I just couldn’t see myself giving up the rest of my life to take care of someone who may not be able to give anything back to the world."
  I am 31 years old, the eldest child of my parents. I have a brother who passed away in 1994 at age 13, and a sister who passed in 2005 at the age of 21. Neither of my siblings ever spoke a word, took a step, fed themselves, ect… They were both born with severe birth defects and mental retardation which included a great deal of health complications through their short lives. My siblings suffered greatly, and I can not count the times I wished the recessive chromosome that caused their disabilities had been destined for me so they could have lived healthy, happy lives.
  When both of my siblings passed, we held memorial services to bring together family with the people whose jobs it was to care for them. I remember being astounded at the number of people who showed up to honor and remember both of these precious children. The words they spoke told stories of their love for my brother and sister, and the ways their lives were forever changed as a result of their knowing my siblings. Beautiful tributes abounded as everyone's eyes overflowed, finally understanding the tremendous impact these poor sick children had on those around them. Everything from their determination to live during health scares they weren't anticipated to survive, to my sister's smile at the bus driver as she was loaded up for therapy every morning….. these children DID GIVE BACK TO THE WORLD! My siblings were two of the most inspirational people I have ever met, and they never even knew who I was.
  When I was pregnant with my first child, I was faced with the decision to have tests done to determine if my child was going to have the same disabilities as my siblings. I opted not to. I knew that having a child like my brother or sister would be the single most challenging and painful thing I would ever do, but also the most rewarding. I did have a high-tech ultrasound done to look for the physical signs that could indicate the same issues in my child, but only so that if any signs were present I could make sure that my child came into the world at a place equipped to handle her special needs. None of those signs were present, and I later delivered a healthy baby girl. The process repeated when I had my second daughter.
  I pray that my healthy and happy children will have the same impact and be the same blessing tot he world that my siblings were.

• Alison Says:
  October 13th, 2011 at 3:36 pm

  I noticed that the two people who called this post "brave" aren't yet mothers. As a mother, I find nothing brave about this post. I find it absolutely heartbreaking. We chose not to undergo this testing during pregnancy, because we knew that regardless of our children's state of health, they were our children. They had been given to us to love and raise and care for…no matter what. We would not have terminated, and we would not have given them up for adoption. I do acknowledge that raising a person with special needs would be incredibly challenging, and I acknowledge that the decision to take on this challenge is up to each individual.
  I simply can not understand giving your child up for adoption because you have a tough future ahead.

• Perpetua Says:
  October 13th, 2011 at 3:54 pm

  This post isn't brave. It's barely even controversial. It's the intellectual equivalent of a Black Flag t-shirt from Hot Topic. The extent to which you, Dusti, haven't thought through the life-long ramifications of parenting even a "normal" child is surprising and down-right sad. You can't give a child away like you'd give away a puppy who peed too many times on the rug. Jesus. Have some sense, girl. And if you're responsible enough to get pregnant, be responsible enough to get the necessary tests and to have the necessary abortion if you don't like the results.

• ~K~ Says:
  October 13th, 2011 at 4:07 pm

  My gut reaction is that personally, I actually don't believe my choice would be the same as Dusti's, even though I've often wondered/questioned/thought about what it would be like…… but I do believe as with other choices around birth/adoption, women get to have that choice for themselves (as evidenced by abortion and adoption as options available to all women, regardless of whether a child as disability or not).

  I guess what it came down to for me, was supporting a woman who recognized her own limitations (whether I agree with her reasons or not)…..and also believing that a child would be better served in a home with parents who loved and felt able to cope with and fully support that child's disability …rather than in a home where the feeling may have been that the child was "not a contributing member, could not live well etc"

  As a social service worker I have seen far too many children suffer unnecessary pain, neglect and violence due to being born into families who wouldn't give them up because they thought "it was wrong", when in reality, there ARE adoptive and foster families who could could love and care for that child better and who would raise that child with as much support and love and dedication as if they were "blood" relation.

  Because of this experience, I actually believe that "abelist" or "politically correct" or not, Dusti ends up making the right choice, not only for her, but to any "disabled child" born to her, ensuring that child would have a better/fuller life with someone who *would* give them everything she realizes she can't. It does take a lot to realize what you can and can't do and it does take heart and courage to give up a child you've carried and born – realizing the life they will have with someone else will be more full than the one you are able/willing to give them.

• bigskygirlmt Says:
  October 13th, 2011 at 4:13 pm

  do you seriously know people who are PRO abortion? I believe the term you're looking for is PRO CHOICE.

• bigskygirlmt Says:
  October 13th, 2011 at 4:14 pm

  amen.

• bigskygirlmt Says:
  October 13th, 2011 at 4:18 pm

  wow. Though I have no idea how I would handle a child with any sort of birth defect, I also know how to keep myself from getting pregnant. Yes, rape happens and is a circumstance in which you have no control over getting pregnant. However, when you make the choice to have sex, you make the choice to "run the risk" and possibly become pregnant. Every decision has its consequences.

• Big L Says:
  October 13th, 2011 at 4:26 pm

  Great comment Lauriane, I think it provided some important perspective!

• Jess Says:
  October 13th, 2011 at 4:26 pm

  I have four children. One of them, my third, is almost two. She doesn't feed herself, doesn't sit up, doesn't walk or crawl. She doesn't talk. She had infantile epilepsy, a coloboma in her eye that looks weird, and is partially deaf in one ear.

  My pregnancy with her was perfect. Medically, the day she was born, she was perfect.

  Yet something is wrong with her, and we don't know what it is. We don't know IF she will ever do any of those things for herself, or if I will continue to have to mix formula into her milk so she continues to grow. I have no idea if she will ever go to school, or play a sport, get married, live on her own.

  But, ironically enough, I don't know that about my three other children either. Completely normal, typical children whose development is on track.

  My daughter, who is considered special needs, could also be labeled as disabled. But that label doesn't even begin to touch on who she is, or how she's changed my life in ways I can't describe. She's perfect, and we all adore her. She brings us joy, and makes us laugh, and I cry more tears over her than I ever thought possible.

  Yet, if I had to the choice of trading her for a typical child, I wouldn't do it. Because she's MINE.

  This post is ridiculous. It's not even a politically charged position, but rather an ignorant one. My child has made a greater contribution to society at 20 months than most people do in their entire lives. Because she's irrevocably changed all of us. Her siblings, us. We're all better, MORE , in our contributions to society than we could have ever been without her in our lives.

  I'm all for different opinions. But stating the intent to make a decision, based on hypothesizing feelings towards a situation one has never experienced? It's presumptuous.

• tillie Says:
  October 13th, 2011 at 4:30 pm

  I have been contemplating whether or not to reply publicly or not. I finally figured I could NOT hold my peace. I tweeted this to Molly, but I have to say it here.

  I get it that EVERYONE is entitled to their own opinion, however, my problem comes in that it feels like Dusti is taking the stand that she's young, if this one is broken she'll just cast it aside and try again. I know she didn't SAY this, I just feel like that is what it is saying.

  I am a 30-something who by all definitions is infertile. Which means it is quite difficult for me to get pregnant. I have, however, gotten pregnant two times this year and subsequently lost both babies. I lost my child and she is willing to toss a child aside. This does NOT sit well with me.

  Being in the infertile community I see so many ladies, wonderful ladies, most of whom are much older than Dusti is who get their miracles taken away from them. Some are only a few weeks in (like me) and others are barely past the 20 week mark that Dusti is at…they wind up LOOSING their babies. I can't speak for them, but I know I gladly would accept any child that God would choose to give me just so I could have kept my child.

  It is YOUR child. I have nothing against people who want to give their children up for adoption, it's a selfless decision and I could only imagine how gut-wrenching of a decision that is…however, these people give choose to give their child up unconditionally. They aren't going to keep the child if it's "perfect"…they aren't giving the child up because it's not.

  My heart breaks for Dusti by not getting that even a "not so perfect" child is a gift from God. I have had many friends with children that have special needs and they were the most precious children ever. One of my best friends in high school was "special". It's sad that you don't see that. It's sad that you don't realize.

  I could only wish for a child that would love me so unconditionally.

• WitchWords Says:
  October 13th, 2011 at 4:44 pm

  Okay, this is completely unhelpful and not even really on topic. Consenting to sex is not consenting to pregnancy, birth, or parenting. Don't conflate those things. And once a person is pregnant, they have the right to choose to handle it however they want, however works best for them. The problem here isn't about "don't have sex if you're not going to keep the baby", the problem here is a set of offensive stereotypes about people with disabilities. How did this comment add to the discussion at all?

• Erin Says:
  October 13th, 2011 at 4:55 pm

  I have been stewing over this post for hours now, and I'm still not even sure I can respond politely. As a mother and as a special education teacher, I am thoroughly disgusted by what you have written here.

  I thought I was going to be reading a post about the normal fears we all have while pregnant. Then I read this: "That said, if I did have a baby with an irreversible birth defect, I would give it up for adoption." Shocking? Yes, but that's not even the tip of the iceburg on why I'm disgusted.

  "I couldn’t raise someone who in all likelihood would never be independent. And even if they were, they wouldn’t be able to live well." What is your definition of independence? What is your definition of living well? Your comment here clearly indicates that you know little to nothing about people with developmental disabilities. Who are you to get to say what a happy, full life is? I'm sure you've heard of Helen Keller, right? What an extraordinary individual. Do you know who Temple Grandin is? She has autism, but she's authored numerous books, has regular speaking engagements, and lives a FULL life. Keller and Grandin's parents didn't sign up for a life with a child with needs, but that's what they got…and they also got extraordinary, amazing daughters.

  "I just couldn’t see myself giving up the rest of my life to take care of someone who may not be able to give anything back to the world." Guess what? When you sign up to be a parent, you sign up for life. You sign up for whatever that life might entail. The good, the bad, the ugly, and the amazing. Shame on you for choosing to only want to parent under your ideal circumstances.

  You want kids who are strong, healthy, and able to live their lives any way they choose. What guarantee do you have that that will be the case? There are students in my school who were developmentally "normal" but tragedy left them with significant needs. Would you give up your child if he could no longer live the life you envisioned? What happens if you go into labor at 24 weeks? Will you give up your baby for adoption because of the significant chance they she would have exceptional needs?

  I could go on and on, but I don't really think there's a point. Molly commented to me that you didn't really know what you were starting when you posted this, but I find that extremely hard to believe. You had to have known how inflammatory your words were. At it's best this post is ignorant and discriminatory, at it's worst it reeks of instagating drama for page views.

• Molly_Mahar Says:
  October 13th, 2011 at 5:07 pm

  Thank you for this well put and respectful comment. I think you actually hit spot on with what was actually the point of Dusti's post & part of the response she is composing. xo

• Big L Says:
  October 13th, 2011 at 5:09 pm

  Thank you, to Renee for writing that email to you, Molly, for sharing it with us. It is some very rich food for thought, indeed. While I too completely disagree with Dusti's opinion, I still struggle with whether this community should be censored and to what degree. As a person who participates here often, I feel this is a really important question to consider.

  Sure, maybe Dusti isn't as informed, compassionate, or enlightened about adoption, parenthood, or the value that people with disabilities contribute to the world as the readers here decide she "should" be. Maybe she is blatantly spreading hate and prejudice. I can't presume to know everything about Dusti or what other context her thoughts have (and there is always context). But I bet almost everyone who read this post asked themselves whether they agree or disagree with what she has to say. And maybe that moment of self-reflection and self-awareness was valuable for a reader here today. Maybe another reader agreed with Dusti, until she read everyone's comments here and Renee's heartfelt letter, and it inspired her to reconsider.

  Or what if, by putting her opinions out there and eliciting this response from all of us, Dusti herself has learned something? Or will reconsider her opinion? Or starts volunteering in health care because she wants to broaden her perspective further? Or, what if she apologizes, or has a change of heart? How would everyone who's putting her down feel then?

  All hypothetical, of course, but as a person who originally described Dusti's post as "brave" (I have since deleted that comment so I could elaborate with this one), THAT is what I was thinking. I was choosing to give Dusti the benefit of the doubt and hope that, wherever she is, she's reading these comments with an open mind and an open heart. I hoped that Dusti was willing to share a controversial or uneducated or misinformed opinion, if she was open to the discussion that followed.

  Or, maybe she isn't. Who am I to know for sure? But that doesn't mean the discussion hasn't been valuable – maybe even life changing – for someone here today.

• Erin Says:
  October 13th, 2011 at 5:13 pm

  I 100% agree that the one good thing to come out of such ignorance is that maybe someone was educated today.

• Jess Says:
  October 13th, 2011 at 5:19 pm

  Just curious.. whether you agree or disagree with this post, why is it ok to have an abortion but not give it up for adoption? I just wonder how you can be upset by this post but then justify terminating the pregnancy rather than giving it a shot at a normal life with adoptive parents who choose to take on the challenge of raising it. I'm not even against abortion, this just seemed a little backwards to me.

• Alison Says:
  October 13th, 2011 at 5:23 pm

  Yeah, I don't think there's anyone out there who is all "Yay! Abortion is so awesome!" It is most definitely called "pro-choice". And it's a choice that nobody hopes they ever have to make, something many "pro-lifers" don't seem to understand.

• Alison Says:
  October 13th, 2011 at 5:33 pm

  Or how would she feel if something happened to that child after it is born which would cause it to have permanent mental disabilities? You can't give it up for adoption then!

• Lisa Says:
  October 13th, 2011 at 5:37 pm

  "That said, if I did have a baby with an irreversible birth defect, I would give it up for adoption."
  I don't think that any person can truly and honestly make a declaration like this during their pregnancy. What do you consider to be a disability? A family friend had a difficult birth where her daughter was oxygen deprived. Her apgar was two and her parents were warned that it would be years before they could entirely rule out the possibility of brain damage. If it were you, would you give her up for adoption? What is your plan if you go in to labor early and give birth to a micropreemie? Will you keep this child, knowing that he or she is very likely to have some level of developmental delays or disabilities?

  Do you just imagine that if you give birth to a child with Down's syndrome that you will look at his or her tiny face and feel nothing? There's not a small part of you that thinks you definitely could raise a child with disabilities, that you would just take this child — a product of your genetics — and hand it off to someone else?

  "This was an effort to share on a subject not often discussed and to encourage others to plan their pregnancy to be exactly what they want."

  You know it is impossible for someone to plan their pregnancy to be exactly what they want. You know it is impossible to raise a child to be exactly what you dream for him or her. I don't believe for a second that you really meant this post as an innocent discussion intended to empower women in some way.

• Valerie Says:
  October 13th, 2011 at 5:48 pm

  "Call it selfish if you like, but I just couldn’t see myself giving up the rest of my life to take care of someone who may not be able to give anything back to the world."

  I'm so sad that Dusti seems to think that people with disabilities could potentially not give anything back to the world. How do you even define that?

• Molly_Mahar Says:
  October 13th, 2011 at 5:49 pm

  Oh, all my bloggers have such a way with words. Love this L. Thanks for sharing. It speaks to a lot of what I am feeling.

• Alison Says:
  October 13th, 2011 at 5:50 pm

  Yeah this comment is slightly off-topic. This post isn't about abortion. It's about potentially putting a child up for adoption because they are handicapped in some way.

  And, what WitchWords said. Consenting to sex is not consenting to pregnancy.

• Alison Says:
  October 13th, 2011 at 5:55 pm

  I was actually thinking this same thing. There are women out there who can't have children who would FUME at the idea of this person giving up a baby because it's not perfect. Dusti's post is absolutely ridiculous. She is entitled to her opinion, but how selfish can a person be???

• Lisa Says:
  October 13th, 2011 at 5:59 pm

  I don't disagree all children deserve a loving home. What I disagree with is Dusti's steadfast declaration that she just absolutely will not raise a child with disabilities. Frankly, I don't think it's true. I think she could give birth to a child with Down's syndrome and fall head over heels in love the minute she sees her. Or she could not. How am I to know? But, how is Dusti to know? Has she been in that situation? No. I think the mature thing is to say that she's worried about how she would handle raising a child with special needs. We all are. I think it's realistic and mature to say she doesn't know what she would do; its understandable since she hasn't been in that situation. I believe it's immature and irresponsible to declare that she would turn her hypothetical child with hypothetical disabilities over to hypothetical adoptive parents.

  I just think claiming to know what one would do in that situation is asinine and not worthy of a pat on the back for "making tough choices."

• Lisa Says:
  October 13th, 2011 at 6:05 pm

  She specifically said "When I imagine the rest of my life, I see a partner who loves me without limit and kids who are strong, healthy, and able to live their life in any way they choose. If my kids are limited, it won’t be because of something biological they had no control over."

  That last sentence in particular — where she claims that HER children won't be limited by biology — certainly reads to me as if she will only accept a biologically perfect (in her eyes) child.

• Lisa Says:
  October 13th, 2011 at 6:12 pm

  I can't speak for Perpetua, but to me, it seemed like Dusti was knocking genetic pre-screening. She claims she doesn't want to know, yet knows she can't raise a child with special needs. It seems to me like someone who knows she is unwilling/unable to raise a child with special needs would have the testing and make a decision to terminate or carry to term based on those results, not wait until after the baby is here and then throw up her hands claiming she can't care for it, so it becomes someone else's responsibility.

• Erin Says:
  October 13th, 2011 at 6:18 pm

  Dusti, while I appreciate you taking the time to respond…I think you may have missed the mark on why people are upset. Yes, the adoption thing seems like an extreme opinion, but it's more the complete ignorance about people with developmental disabilities. At least for me, it's the commenting on the value of someone's life in such a flippant way that I find sickening. Your response completely fails to address this issue.

• Renee Says:
  October 13th, 2011 at 6:19 pm

  I am severely disappointed that my commentary was shoved off as "politically charged" and irrelevant. But the personal is, in fact, political. Dusti, you brushed me off as though I just told a silly story. My commentary was not about my cousin. My commentary was calling out your ableism and perpetuation of systems of oppression. This IS a relevant conversation that NEEDS to be had.

  I do not think this is the appropriate space to have a discussion about reproductive freedom, as I fear this discussion has veered away from the obvious ableism, for which Dusti has still not apologized.

  This was never intended to be a discussion about the freedom of choice. I, as a former Stratejoy blogger, know full well how the Stratejoy community can respond positively to the most political posts as long as they are written with compassion and honest self-reflection. This lacked the warmth, honesty, and vulnerability that is often inherent in Stratejoy's message.
  People with disabilities deserve the same choices as the rest of us. Yes, we are legally able to do what we want with our reproductive systems at this point, but children with disabilities don't have the liberty to choose as we do. Their voices are often silenced. The Stratejoy community recognizes their silence and wants to speak out. At what point do you believe we can choose to give up our kids because their disabilities are an inconvenience to us?

  Your ableism, Dusti, is what has outraged the community. I, and many others, would appreciate it if you would acknowledge that and learn from it.

  "At the end of our lives, we will not be judged by how many diplomas we have received, how much money we have made or how many great things we have done. We will be judged by ‘I was hungry and you gave me to eat. I was naked and you clothed me. I was homeless and you took me in.’ Hungry not only for bread-but hungry for love. Naked not only for clothing-but naked of human dignity and respect. Homeless not only for want of a room of bricks-but homeless because of rejection." Mother Teresa

  Thank you.

• Andrew A Says:
  October 13th, 2011 at 6:33 pm

  I don't usually comment. Dusti's partner here.

  It is not that we don't want to know about any defects about our little one, we simply do not want to take "an invasive test where they stick a needle into your uterus. About 1 in 300 tests causes a miscarriage."

  Terminating the pregnancy is not something we are interested in. If you know of any non-invasive tests that doesn't cause unnecessary risk to the infant and can detect the same birth defects, please, let me know.

• WitchWords Says:
  October 13th, 2011 at 6:36 pm

  Exactly. If you know you can't handle it, the responsible thing to do would be to find out if that's going to be a problem in advance, instead of throwing up your hands and saying "Well, if it happens it happens…but if it happens I'm going to let someone else deal with it."

  Also, frankly, having been close with a number of people who were children in The System, abortion may be the merciful option. The system is not kind to imperfect children.

• WitchWords Says:
  October 13th, 2011 at 6:40 pm

  Standing ovation, Renee. This isn't about how one woman has decided to handle her pregnancy – it's about the outrageous assertions about disabled people perpetuating the stereotype of "lifelong dependents" and "not contributing to the world". And it seems that many people, not just Dusti, are failing to grasp that.

  Put it this way: it's not about the choice. It's about the rationale given to justify the choice.

• Sarah Says:
  October 13th, 2011 at 7:52 pm

  Wow.

  What a sad post. My heart hurts.

  I just had a baby five months ago and there is absolutely nothing in this world that would cause me to give him up. Nothing.

  I'm sorry you don't feel the same way Dusti. And I'm sorry for your child.

• Guest Says:
  October 13th, 2011 at 8:00 pm

  I found this post painful to read. This human needs to to evolve.

• Helena Says:
  October 13th, 2011 at 8:03 pm

  Note: I am not a mother. However, I wouldn't imagine any parents go into the process of becoming parents feeling completely prepared – "perfectly healthy" child or not. To say that you wouldn't know how to care for a child with special needs is a cop-out. You and your partner could learn. There are amazing support groups and resources out there.

  I'm also a little disturbed with the casualness with which the process of putting one's child up for adoption is thrown out as an alternative. Yes, for some, this is absolutely the best and right choice for the future of parent and child alike. However, it's never an option that should (or, frankly, could) be entered without serious self-reflection.

• Ted Says:
  October 13th, 2011 at 8:56 pm

  What if you gave birth to a to (I hate the term, but…) a little person? What if your child had 4 fingers on one hand, a cleft palate, was black, deaf, left-handed, stuttered, was transgendered, had a horn in the middle of her forehead, was a boy, was a girl, was Muslim, liked football, liked futbol, masturbated, had three nipples, drank Pepsi, drank Coke?

  The point is, there are a lot of stupid things you can discount a person for, but to assign value to a person within society based on these is called prejudice. Go ahead, give the kid up for adoption, but own your prejudice and just come out and say "I can't deal with a retard baby," because that may not be what you "said," but that's what you said.

  Oh, and I to follow up on the comments hoping your baby is healthy, I'm going to go ahead and say that I hope so too, and also that you decide to give it up for adoption anyway, because I would like for more children to be raised to believe that every human has value and a place in society.

• devilishdelish Says:
  October 13th, 2011 at 9:07 pm

  I read this as soon as it was posted today, before any of the comments were posted, tears shed, or frustrations felt. I went throughout my whole painful day thinking about this topic. What would I do if I were in those shoes? And frankly, I have not a damn clue!

  Part of me understands what Dusti is saying. As someone who suffers from severe depression and has had suicide attempts, someone who suffers from at times crippling anxiety, I don't know if I could raise a child properly with the love and compassion and stability and functional lifestyle that they need and deserve, no matter if they are 100% healthy or if they have a disability. So I make sure to protect against pregnancy.

  But what if I were to get pregnant? Things happens. We don't always plan for these things. Would I be a horrible person for placing that child up for adoption despite their great health, because I know that I am not healthy enough to provide for it, but also personally cannot have an abortion? Does that make me uninformed or less compassionate?

  And if the child had a disability? I do not see that easing the decision.

  My step brother was severely disabled. Thanks to his cerebral palsy, he could not function independently at all during his life. He grew up living in a group home of sorts because his mom and my dad were unable to care for them on their own. He had the constant medical attention needed, the love and support, and the around the clock care that my parents were unable to provide. Does that make them less loving as parents and people because they couldn't do it alone? Does that make them bad people? Does that make them irresponsible? No no no no no. They loved him beyond belief. They did the best and most loving thing they could for him… admitting that they couldn't do it alone and putting him in the group home.

  Not everyone might agree with Dusti. Hell, I don't even know if I do. But to accuse her of lacking compassion or knowledge or enlightenment… that is not okay. She is an amazing young woman taking time to consider these things ahead of time in order to make the best decision for herself and her unborn child. That is nothing less than honorable.

• jennbizzle Says:
  October 13th, 2011 at 9:33 pm

  Strong opinions! Whether or not I agree with Dusti's opinion, I do believe she is brave for sharing it. It might not have been comunicated in the right way, but sometimes our thoughts are messy like that and it takes a TRIBE to really sort them out. I don't have much to say (that hasn't already been said) except that I see, feel, and appreciate the growth that is happening here. Regardless of how it makes you feel, the imp[ortant thing is that it DOES make you feel.

• Casey Says:
  October 13th, 2011 at 9:34 pm

  Ditto. Well said. I certainly hadn't considered all of these points until so many posted. I take this as an open discussion where new thoughts can be shared with others for the benefit of all. I for one had an open conversation with my long-term boyfriend tonight about "What would we do". We don't have children now and aren't planning to have one any time soon but it was good to have the dialogue now rather than later. We wouldn't have had that conversation tonight if it had not been for the initial post as well as all of the responses with different points to consider. For that, I am thankful.

• David Stehle Says:
  October 13th, 2011 at 9:43 pm

  Twitter is buzzing about this post, so I had to stop by to see what all the ruckus is about!

  I'm sure nobody needs a dude's opinion on this and I'm not going to even pretend I'm anywhere near qualified to speak about pregnancy issues or being a parent. However, I did want to add this…

  What I find most disheartening is that Molly is being attacked for running this piece.

  Sure, even I was a bit offended by some of Dusti's post (and I don't offend easy). But these are HER views and part of HER quarter-life crisis, regardless if anyone finds them to be morally wrong or outrageously hateful.

  So while I may not agree with Dusti, I do applaud her raw honesty. And furthermore, I respect the hell out of Molly for having the guts to publish this knowing the backlash it would receive. Sure the Stratejoy site is about joyfull living and the word "joy" doesn't sum up the feeling one gets after reading this post. But if I'm not mistaken, the Stratejoy site is also about pushing through one's quarter-life crisis. And I think anyone in the midst of a quarter-life crisis wouldn't describe that period in their life as joyful.

  In other words, every post doesn't need to be filled with cupcakes and flowers. But every post should be filled with honesty. And I believe this post was. So kudos to Molly for looking past the controversial language and viewpoints in Dusti's post and for not censoring any of it.

• Rebecca Says:
  October 13th, 2011 at 10:51 pm

  I'm disgusted by this entire article. The only reason I'm even commenting is to say that if your child isn't born "perfect", you just give me a call. I've been trying for seven years to get pregnant and would gladly give up a limb if it meant I could be a mother. I'd be more than happy to take your "disabled" "non-contributing" MIRACLE for my own. I pray for your child's sake that your eyes are opened sooner rather than later and you learn to accept and embrace the diversity, worthiness, and uniqueness of EVERY CHILD!

• Andrew A Says:
  October 13th, 2011 at 11:09 pm

  Andrew, the partner here again.

  We have chosen not to take an invasive, potentially dangerous test because we don't like the chances of miscarriage. 1 out of 300?

  When we were presented with the option to take this test it opened up an opportunity to have a discussion about what we would do if our child had a hugely disabling disorder. I feel the need to clear one thing up, we decided that if our child had a disability to the point of likely relying on other people for everything, for his lifetime, we would give him up for adoption. I do not think Dusti made this clear enough.

  "Similar to many of the assumptions underlying the medical model of disability amongst many clinicians, the "ableist" societal world-view is that the able-bodied are the norm in society, and that people who have disabilities must either strive to become that norm or should keep their distance from able-bodied people. A disability is thus, inherently, a "bad" thing that must be overcome. The ableist worldview holds that disability is an error, a mistake, or a failing, rather than a simple consequence of human diversity, akin to race, ethnicity, sexual orientation or gender."

  Nowhere in her post does she say that people with disabilities are less than 'normal' people, or that they need to strive to become the norm.

  In Dusti's post, stereotypes were mentioned, but she also recognized the other side of the coin. If you think that this topic was going to be filled in with every detail of every person that ever had a disability, you are mistaken.

  It's a blog post. Generally about 500 words. You just aren't going to get all the details. Dusti was planning writing another post on the topic, but the flogging convinced her that she wasn't welcome to share any further opinion on the matter.

  Renee, the story about the state paying your familly member to watch another familly member full time, that specific part was the "politically charged" part, I convinced her that didn't need to be talked about. Also, you shouldn't assume you are speaking for the community. It's not polite.

  I'll leave you with one more thought,

  Is it worse to terminate a pregnancy because you don't think you could handle raising a child with a disability?

  Or, is it worse to give that child up for adoption?

  Please, direct any further hate towards me, please refrain from name calling, as Dusti will no longer be visiting this post. You will not be getting an apology for any words you have put into Dusti's mouth or for anything else on this page.

• Perpetua Says:
  October 13th, 2011 at 11:22 pm

  Two things really upset me here, Jess. One: adoption is NOT an easy choice. It's not like giving away your old clothes to Goodwill. Birth parents who choose adoption do so because they want their child to have a shot at a better life; I think Dusti has gotten that part right. But to just so simply say, "Well, if the kid comes out "wrong," I'll just give it away"–that tone really annoyed me, to be honest. I don't think that's how she feels, but it ends up treating adoption like this easy answer, this thing you just do if you don't like your kid, rather than the difficult (and wonderful) option for parents who find that they can't give their child the life it deserves.

  Two: you have to take responsibility for your child from the moment you get pregnant. You have to do the absolute best possible. We all fail at times, but you have to at least try. I don't think, in this case, that you're doing the best for the child if you carry it to term only to put it up for adoption. The child has a shot at a normal life, but it's a long shot. There are families who adopt children with special needs, but those kids are much more likely to end up in the foster care system than in a forever family. To me, the best thing you can do in that case–when you know absolutely that you can't parent the child–is to end the pregnancy.

• Perpetua Says:
  October 13th, 2011 at 11:24 pm

  Yep, both Lisa and WitchWords both said what I was thinking, only better.

• Lauriane Says:
  October 13th, 2011 at 11:58 pm

  Yes, I'm sorry that is totally what I meant. English is not my first language and I do my best but sometimes my thoughts don't come accross the way I want them to. But you got what I meant so that's what matters.
  Thanks guys!

• mmmmmel Says:
  October 14th, 2011 at 12:19 am

  My mum fell pregnant with my younger brother, who has Down syndrome, at 21 years old. Good luck with that 'low risk' strategy.

  I can't even comment on the rest of what Dusti had to say.

• Lisa Says:
  October 14th, 2011 at 6:31 am

  "Would it really be better for me to terminate a pregnancy five months in because the child has a high likelihood of a disability?"
  — You say this as if people here are encouraging you to just go out and have an abortion based on the information you have now (none). That is not the case at all. Yes, the quad screen has a high incidence of false positives, which leads to further testing. Those tests are quite accurate. Yes, there is a risk involved, but if you know you are unable to raise a child with special needs, that is a risk you *need* to take. Then, after you see your child's chromosomal makeup, you can make an informed decision as to whether or not you will be able to raise your child.

  "I’m no fundamentalist, but I’ve been able to feel this little guy moving around for the past month. I’m not so calloused I don’t respect this child’s life at this point."
  — To me, this means that you are not 100% sure that you could give up a child that you carried, birthed, and held in your arms, just because he or she has a disability. It furthers my belief that you posted this hypothetical just to be controversial.

  As for brushing off Renee's email… your intention might have been to discuss choices during pregnancy, but in doing so, you marginalized a whole group of people. That fact can't just be pushed aside because it wasn't your intention and you don't want to discuss it.

• Heather Rae Says:
  October 14th, 2011 at 7:23 am

  I've been following this conversation since the blog posted, and I've been debating whether or not to post. But I feel compelled. I am INCREDIBLY disappointed by the amount of judgement I see on this page. Dusti shared her opinion about a topic that is often difficult to discuss. Why is it difficult? Because of precisely what happened on this page. Because our society is *incredibly* judgmental. Dusti did not advocate that anyone agree with her opinion. She simply stated her feelings and asked what other people would do in such a hypothetical situation. In response, many people have been incredibly judgmental of her.

  This is why I choose not to share with this group what I would do in such a situation. I do not care to be judged by people that don't know my personal situation.

  Similarly, having worked for years with women and men in the field of women's health and family planning, I can tell you that *many* women do the same. They say one thing in public but do something entirely different in the privacy of their doctor's office — where they are free from judgement. This is why so many women that have abortions or choose to give their children up for adoption lie about it. Because they are afraid of being judged or looked at differently. I strongly believe, whether we agree or disagree with Dusti's opinion, that we should support and respect each other. We should listen; we should keep an open mind; we should educate — but we should NOT judge.

• Heather Rae Says:
  October 14th, 2011 at 7:49 am

  I completely agree, and I support you both. Please pass that on to Dusti. There is nothing wrong with making a decision that is best for you both.

• Erin Says:
  October 14th, 2011 at 7:53 am

  At least for me, the judgment has virtually nothing to do with Dusti saying that she would give a child up for adoption. It has everything to do with the ignorant and callous assumptions she makes about people with developmental disabilities.

  This post could have been an amazing opportunity to talk about the very real and very normal fears that women experience during pregnancy. It's normal to worry about your child's future. No one wishes for a child with significant delays. I think that would have been a brave post that sparked an interesting and intellectual discussion.

  Instead, what I read was a post full of inflammatory comments about the quality of life a person with a disability is able to lead. I read about a woman who didn't want to be inconvenienced by a child with a disability.

  If Dusti had said she would give up a child that was black or a child that was gay, would anyone be calling her brave? If she said she wouldn't keep a gay child because that wasn't part of the vision she had for her life, would we say that was brave?

• Lisa Says:
  October 14th, 2011 at 8:03 am

  "We have chosen not to take an invasive, potentially dangerous test because we don't like the chances of miscarriage. 1 out of 300?"
  — No, you didn't. You chose not to take a blood test that gives a more detailed view of risk levels. AFTER you get the results of this blood test, you evaluate and determine next steps. That might be a high-level ultrasound. It might be an amnio. It might be both, or neither. You just gather all the data you can at each step and determine the next one.

  If you elect not to get the screening, that's fine. I declined it myself. But, I also didn't declare myself unable to raise a child with disabilities. If you recognize that inability in yourself, the screening is important, and the initial screening is not invasive or potentially dangerous.

• erin Says:
  October 14th, 2011 at 8:54 am

  I commend Renee for writing so eloquently and respectfully as to what most of of were thinking. I also commend Dusti's honesty. She took a chance and did share things that most people wouldn't. I'd also like to state for the record that I do not in any way, shape or form agree with Dusti's stance, and I'm flabbergasted with the naive thinking, regardless of her rebuttal.

  That being said. What I am commenting on is Molly's honoring of the "truth". Molly, no matter what, you'll have people who agree with you and people who disagree with you for posting Dusti's post…and keeping it up. I think you're courageous for posting it AND All the replies, because obviously if people are this passionate with their responses, it is a conversation we should be having. Just because it is uncomfortable, doesn't mean we should shy away from the conversation. I know this must have been a very tough position for you, but I just wanted to say thank you taking the chance to post this and keeping it up. I'm not sure I would have, or could have, but I totally appreciate your braveity.

• erin Says:
  October 14th, 2011 at 8:55 am

  I agree… Standing ovation, Renee.

• Big L Says:
  October 14th, 2011 at 9:52 am

  Awesome Casey, thank you for sharing that. I'm sure that's what Molly and Dusti were intending when they posted this to begin with.

• Jess Says:
  October 14th, 2011 at 10:09 am

  Ah I get what you're saying. Just had to ask for my own curiosity. Thanks for explaining.

• Big L Says:
  October 14th, 2011 at 10:21 am

  Thank you Heather Rae for deciding to post a comment. I too have been extremely disheartened by the extent of the rage and judgement resulting from this post. It has spiralled out of control. When I realized the number of people on Twitter and Facebook who are using their personal profiles to direct even MORE hatred and negativity toward Dusti, I was really, really discouraged.

  This whole thing has really caused me to seriously reconsider the value of sharing our opinions and lives publicly, the way bloggers do, particularly because I'm in the midst of building my own new blog, with community-building in mind. I'm less than keen to move forward with it now.

  I'm reminded of Molly's post from quite some time ago, about the Internet being fake. No blog post *ever* tells the whole story. Ever. And nobody's Internet presence, profile or voice will *ever* be as meaningful as what they do or say in real life, with real people.

• Andrew A Says:
  October 14th, 2011 at 10:27 am

  That blood test may give a fairly detailed view of the risk level, but it doesn't give any definitive data.

  The Ultrasound went well, nothing unusual to report there.

  Because we have already decided we are not going to get the amnio test done, what would be the point in making ourselves worry about something that may just turn out to have been a false positive?

  Do you think that it would be fair to make the decision based on that blood screening? and if you did make a decision based on that, what happens if the screening was wrong?

• Emily Says:
  October 14th, 2011 at 11:00 am

  I absolutely, wholeheartedly agree with this. While many valid points have been brought up about how some aspects of this post may be "ableist," we would not be honoring the vulnerable truth that it *is* a difficult decision that confronts many women and is so rarely talked about for the excess of judgment that has been displayed over the past couple days.

  So Dusti and Andrew, know that there are at least a few of us that support your right to make the decision that you did and wish you all the best.

• Erin Says:
  October 14th, 2011 at 11:53 am

  I would like to say again, it's not the CHOICE that bothers me at all. It's the degrading language that Dusti uses to talk about the lives of people with developmental delays. For that, she has given no response.

• Alisha Says:
  October 14th, 2011 at 12:07 pm

  This is what drives me crazy about pro-lifers. (Not that Dusti is a pro-lifer, but I'm responding to her words, "I’m no fundamentalist, but I’ve been able to feel this little guy moving around for the past month. I’m not so calloused I don’t respect this child’s life at this point.") They "respect the life" of the unborn child, but not enough to actually care for said child once it's born. There are so many children in the system already who may never find homes, and children with disabilities are FAR less likely to find the kind of love and care they need in the system than so-called "normal" children. For Dusti to say that she would give up a child with disabilities to adoption (i.e. foster care), in the hopes that he/she would live a better life than any Dusti could provide is simply… naive. To put it politely.

  Take responsibility for your actions. If that means aborting a fetus with an irreversible defect and living with the guilt it causes you, fine. If that means keeping the child and living a different life than the one you envisioned for yourself, fine. But in my opinion, putting a child with disabilities at the mercy of the system is by far the least responsible, least merciful thing one could do.

• Erin Says:
  October 14th, 2011 at 12:15 pm

  As I've stated several times, my issue isn't with Dusti's choice that she would give a child with a disability up for adoption. It's degrading comments such as people with disabilities wouldn't be able to "live well" or that she "couldn’t see myself giving up the rest of my life to take care of someone who may not be able to give anything back to the world." My issue is with the flippant and dismissive comments about people with disabilities. It's natural to be fearful of having a child with disabilities, but that conversation can be had without being degrading.

• Lauriane Says:
  October 14th, 2011 at 12:32 pm

  I think it is sad to see what started as an intimate opinion sharing turning into a mad debate that is just out of control… I'm way more shocked by the narrow-mindedness and accusative outpouring of rage that's going on than by Dusti's initial opinion (that I do not share, but it isn't even the point anymore).

  Stratejoy is supposed to be a safe space where we can all share our stories as 'quarterlifers'. And would any of us feel comfortable sharing a story, knowing that there is a crowd of judges waiting out there? I think not, and it's too bad. Of course we can all react and/or disagree with a post, but just not being mean.

  I think that Dusti (or maybe even other bloggers?) is going to have a hard time sharing her story with us now, which is too bad… We don't know her story, her background, so we can't just go ahead and judge her! or her opinions for that matter.
  I do respect every single opinion that was shared among the comments (I read them all), and we all have good points. But remember guys, judging a person doesn't define who they are. It defines who you are.

  That being said, I thank Renee for her wisdom, Molly for her guts, and I wish Dusti a very happy second half of her pregnancy!!!

• Kristy Says:
  October 14th, 2011 at 12:59 pm

  Hi Dusti,

  Based on your response at the end I better understand your original post. However, I think that the political nature of Renee’s response is not invalid.

  Your original post centers most of the focus of your decision on what you feel is the value of a child with disabilities. There is a shift of ‘blame’ there that is severely political.

  In your response you clarify that you meant to talk about yourself and your own lack of ability to raise such a child, but the original post does not give that impression — instead you talk a lot about what is wrong and limiting about a person with disabilities, and therefore why such a child would be difficult/impossible to raise.

  Instead of thinking about how biology “limits” people, I would challenge you to think about how systems are structured to limit and exclude people with different biological qualities. This world does a very poor job of providing access and meeting needs of those who have different abilities than what is considered “normal” (especially when normal doesn’t even really exist – everyone has different abilities in varied degrees). This does not necessarily make the child themselves limited like you write, but instead becomes a bigger issue. Yes, the (infra)structure of society makes your life and your child’s life more difficult, and your response seems to make a nod to that. But I would have liked to see more thoughtfulness and personal responsibility/accountability in your original post as well.

• Lisa Says:
  October 14th, 2011 at 1:07 pm

  You're right, it does not give a definitive answer. No, I do not think it would be fair to make a decision based on the blood test, nor do I think the medical community encourages that. It used as a screening tool to determine if further testing is necessary.

  If you are absolutely dead-set against having an amnio under *any* circumstances, then I agree, the blood test is pointless. I'm really trying to understand where you are coming from, but I'm having a hard time understanding being so adamantly against raising a child with a disability, yet also adamantly against screening for disorders.

  I apologize for harping on the details of these levels of screenings, but I don't want women to get the idea that the screening is inaccurate or dangerous. The initial level of screening isn't perfect, but it isn't terrible. An amnio does carry a risk of miscarriage (which I would argue is slight, but there is a risk) but it is only done when there is a good medical reason, and it is a highly accurate test.

  A question that really is irrelevant, but I'm just curious: If an ultrasound had shown there to be something like a heart problem, something that would require surgery shortly after birth to correct, and the doctor wanted to do an amnio to gather more information, would you refuse it then?

• laurenne_s Says:
  October 14th, 2011 at 2:52 pm

  I heard an interview with the author of the book. The Boy in the Moon.

  http://www.amazon.ca/Boy-Moon-Fathers-Search-Disa…

  This boy was born and can do nothing for himself. Can't eat. Can't talk. Can't even live in the house with the parents anymore. The family has loved him, cared for him, learned from him, and made him an integral part of their family. They wouldn't have been the same without him. They've surely learned acceptance and beauty and patience from him.
  However, the mom said that if she had known life would have been like it is, she would have had the abortion. Even after loving and knowing her son, she admitted that. Because it's hard. It's a life-changer. It's a big deal. And it's not saying that anyone doesn't deserve love. It's just speaking a truth. And I think it's totally okay to have that stance. And I think those who should be ashamed are the ones tearing apart that stance. It's a stance. We all have one. It's okay to disagree. There is no right or wrong.

• Rachel Says:
  October 14th, 2011 at 4:26 pm

  I'll just pray for you.

• Rachel Says:
  October 14th, 2011 at 4:36 pm

  So if you get a normal baby and then somewhere along the way something happens(God forbid) that makes your child totally dependent on everyone else you would give them up and say Thanks but no thanks?? You should have really consider these things before making babies..in my opinion that is gambling with LIFE. There are people who can't have children and you want to give away yours because it is not what you ordered???sigh!

  @Molly- I'm very disappointed in this post and i'm unsubscribing. This is not joyful living in my books!

• Casey Says:
  October 14th, 2011 at 4:58 pm

  Totally agree. Kudos Molly

• maschembari Says:
  October 14th, 2011 at 6:00 pm

  Oh sweet Jesus. Some of these comments are even more hateful than the post itself, especially since the entire thing is a "what if" scenario. Everyone is entitled to living their life the way they want and making hard choices based on their own, intimate knowledge of themselves. End of story.

• kmarie...* Says:
  October 14th, 2011 at 8:06 pm

  Dusti, your post was published because this is a place to facilitate open and honest communication. Your post was criticized for your bluntness (which may be labeled "honestness") but I feel if you had really been open and really been honest it would have been received far better than it was.

  I am by no means in agreement with what you posted, but it seems deeper down there is a mass of insecurities, self doubt, and fear that you ignore, perhaps because it is far too painful. If you had really gone to that deep, vulnerable place and shared those insecurities and the reasons behind your frank decision to give a baby with disabilities up for adoption you likely would have found a community that would have responded with warmth, understanding, compassion, and advice for moving forward. I know it's asking a lot to expect people to go that deep, but that is what living authentically is all about, getting to the roots and really wrestling with your thoughts, pc or otherwise (and in an online community, you unfortunately are asked to wrestle with them in public, in front of millions..). If you had truly been more open and honest, those doubts and "unfriendly" feelings of yours would have been understood in a way that others could have felt comfortable reaching out from a loving place and helping you work through them.

  Your second post really shed a lot more light on the very dark and painful experiences of your past. I just can't imagine how awful that would have been to go through and how painful it must be to relive. If you had been open and honest with the wonderful ladies of the StrateJoy tribe from the beginning, perhaps others would have opened up with their doubts and fears about ppd and their insecurities about a second pregnancy.

  Madeline Albright said once that there is a special place in hell for women who don't support each other (how wonderful a woman is she :]). I do believe you would have found a LOT of support and encouragement and advice and help if you had revealed what was really underneath your comments… I think people would know that those comments came from a place of uncertainty, insecurity, and fear and that is most certainly relatable to all of us…

  My best wishes to you and the new one on the way.. My sincerest hope that you are comforted with peace and love and calmness this time around.

• WitchWords Says:
  October 14th, 2011 at 8:59 pm

  THANK you. People seem to be missing this right, left, and center. We're angry – and rightfully so! – because of the sweeping negative generalizations and stereotypes of people with disabilities Dusti called upon to explain her choice. Yes to talking about the tough choices, yes to brutal honesty, but not when it means trading in bigotry and hatred to do so, which is what this post did. THAT is why we are angry. We are not obligated to treat that kind of offensive, oppressive rhetoric with smiles and gentle corrections, because it is deeply *wrong*. Tolerating bigotry is not a positive attribute or value in a community. If a LGBT person got angry at someone talking with "brutal honesty" about how they just don't like gay people or trans people because they're all promiscuous and diseased, would you accuse that LGBT person of being judgmental for calling that out and being angry about it? No, I am not going to "honor" someone admitting to their prejudices in public, just because it was a difficult thing to do.

• rachael g king Says:
  October 15th, 2011 at 1:19 am

  Bravo.

• Brandee Says:
  October 15th, 2011 at 7:53 am

  I read this post, and the follow-up comments with interest. Fourteen years ago, I became pregnant with our second child. We already had a perfectly healthy three year old daughter. I got very sick during this pregnancy. It was some sort of virus, and I spent months sapped of any energy, coughing myself hoarse, chasing a little one and working full-time. My husband and I were probably I'll-prepared for a second child. I wasn't really aware of much and didn't really think about opting out of those 20 week tests. They were run, and suddenly I was one of the 5%.

  The timing could not have been worse. At that point, I was sicker than a dog and was very close to being put on complete bed rest. It was the week before Thanksgiving, and the facility where I was to schedule any sort of follow up testing was experiencing some sort of technical difficulties and couldn't schedule me for an appointment until well after the holidays. This became crucial, because any sections to terminate a pregnancy would have been out of my hands at that point.

  I understand the outrage that statement will cause. I was soundly criticized for even considering abortion, and for putting myself in the position of being pregnant with a child that could quite possibly have special needs. We were in no way prepared to care for a child like that.

  I opted not to have the amnio done. At that point, we didn't see that the additional risk was worth it. The next five months were the longest of my life. I worried incessantly over what to do. My husband and I recognized that we were not equipped emotionally or financially to care for a child with special needs. We talked about adoption, but never got into the process. Debates raged all around us, with family and friends coming down hard on both sides.

  In the end, it turned out that the tests were false positive. Our son was born with no issues, and no challenges.

  Until the moment he was born, I was scared.

  Now, he and his sister are the lights of my life. They would be, regardless of any challenges that they might have been born with. There are those that will judge me for even considering not keeping my child. Vi have been blasted for being irresponsible in getting pregnant, for even thinking about alternatives to raising him, etc.

  I refuse to accept the criticism for decisions made based on my own experience. We must each walk our own path, and must make decisions in our own life. I commend Dusti for her honesty. I understand the views of everyone that have been expressed here, but I do not believe that we can criticize someone for making decisions that ultimately are their own to make.

  Courage can be found every day, and we each make our own. We can't know how much a decision costs someone else. Rather than judge others, look inward and examine yourself.

  I appreciate that Molly posted this, even though she disagrees with the viewpoint, and has also opened herself up to criticism. Again, let's stop judging, and keep the dialogue going.

• wishcake Says:
  October 16th, 2011 at 12:43 pm

  I feel as though anyone calling this post "brave" is missing the point. If she were simply admitting not being strong enough to have a child with a disability, then that is definitely brave (and understandable). If she were simply expressing the fear she feels in all the "what ifs" that go through your mind when you're pregnant, then that is brave, as well (and typical, I think). But she didn't just leave it at that—she went on to say something that shocked me to my core:

  "…I just couldn’t see myself giving up the rest of my life to take care of someone who may not be able to give anything back to the world."

  I have a feeling she has not spent any time around anyone with disabilities or parents of children with disabilities. Because I think she'd discover that just because a child isn't deemed "perfectly healthy", they have hundreds of incredible things to offer the world. And they leave an incredible impact on the world.

  It's one thing to admit you simply don't have the strength to handle a child with disabilities. It's another to have your reason include that a child with disabilities wouldn't have anything to offer the world and wouldn't be able to live well (whatever that means).

  I'm shocked by this post and those who are supporting it, saying that it's "brave". I think it's outright heartbreaking.

• wishcake Says:
  October 16th, 2011 at 12:49 pm

  I agree 100%.

• Bridget Pilloud Says:
  October 17th, 2011 at 8:20 am

  As someone with a child with developmental disabilities, I understand how Dusti might feel that she doesn't have enough to give. And certainly, I understand the pain that comes with the idea of a child never living on their own.

  Three things:
  1. – Many children with developmental disabilities aren't diagnosed until later in life. You don't know what's wrong at birth. We didn't suspect anything until our son was about 2 years old. This idea that you can take a test and count toes and be sent on your merry way is a fallacy.

  2.- We can't decide what "living well" means for others, especially people who have disabilities or mental illness or anything that takes them out of that "normal" category.

  3.- If you had a baby and it was born with disabilities, isn't that reason to consider that you were meant to have this baby? That there was something about the experience that you needed? And something about you that he needed?

• Humble Opinions, and All That. — Carolina Thinks... Says:
  October 17th, 2011 at 12:22 pm

  [...] do with them. Then much to my surprise I woke up to this vlog by the lovely Katie in response to a post that received a rash of angry voices and angry words. So it was then I knew where they had to go: [...]

• Perpetua Says:
  October 18th, 2011 at 7:55 am

  Hi Andrew. I don't know for sure, but a lot of serious problems can be detected at the 18-week ultrasound. For example, my son had possible markers of a serious problem at the 12-week screen, but at 18 weeks they were able to see that it was fine. I know that Down Syndrome, for example, has markers in the nuchal fold, the face, and the heart; amnio can confirm visual signs, but you can usually tell. As for other problems that don't have physical markers, that's another story.

  I'm sorry that the Internet in General has been tough on you guys, and I include myself in that. I think that, for those of us with children or friends or relatives who DO have disorders, it's hard to think about this stuff. You have to, but it's a painful process. Best wishes for a safe and healthy delivery.

• Sara Says:
  October 18th, 2011 at 3:19 pm

  I agree with some of what you said. However, I was curious as to why you chose the age of 21?

• Sara Says:
  October 18th, 2011 at 3:44 pm

  "You want kids who are strong, healthy, and able to live their lives any way they choose. What guarantee do you have that that will be the case? There are students in my school who were developmentally "normal" but tragedy left them with significant needs."

  This. I couldn't find a way to say this, but I was thinking it.

• Sara Says:
  October 18th, 2011 at 4:01 pm

  Placing a child up for adoption because they have special needs is vastly different than making the decision to utilize a service such as a group home, assisting living facility, independent care facility, or skilled nursing facility to provide the proper level of care for someone. His parents, from what I can read into your comment, did not terminate their parental rights by doing so. They continued to love and care for their son while providing him with a safe, caring environment that could meet his needs, medically or otherwise.

• lauren Says:
  October 19th, 2011 at 4:05 pm

  I'm nearly speechless. Too many thoughts. As a sister of a brother with mental retardation I'm truly disgusted.

• The Most Frustrating Thing About Feminism - Ophelias Webb Says:
  October 25th, 2011 at 6:23 am

  [...] hell, did you see what happened over on the Stratejoy blog a week or so [...]

• Alison Says:
  December 23rd, 2011 at 1:05 pm

  I realize this discussion has already ended (in comments, at least) and the author of this post will not see my comment as she has stopped reading them. (Which saddens me, because part of embracing/speaking your truth is opening yourself up to other people's truths in response. It's unfair to believe that you deserve to be heard without believing that everyone does. I believe that relationships — and people — are made stronger by facing conflict head-on, even if it hurts, and working through it rather than turning a blind eye to it. But I can't say she's right or wrong any more than I can say I am. I can just say how it makes me feel.) Anyway, I felt the need to comment because I don't think enough people acknowledged this issue. I have no problem whatsoever with Dusti's decision regarding adoption. What I have a problem with is the inflammatory way she wrote about it. It's not an issue of syntax for me (I am disabled, and I don't care if I'm called a "person with a disability" or a "disabled person," though I use the correct language because I realize others do care). One can discuss disability & birth defects in a sensitive way even without knowing the correct syntax. This post, unfortunately, came across as completely insensitive to the issue. It came across as having very little thought put into it. Dusti made it clear in her addendum that she put much thought into her decision; I wish she had put as much thought into how she wrote about it. "What if your pregnancy is wrong?" Surely she could have foreseen that people would be offended by the implication that unborn children with birth defects/disabilities are "wrong." Surely she could have foreseen people being offended by her statement that children born with disabilities will "in all likelihood [..] never be independent" or "able to live well." (That in particular was the worst for me — isn't this site all about defining "living well" for yourself, instead of just going by how society or your parents define it? As a person who became disabled as an adult, that's why I came here — to find ways to enjoy life despite my limitations; to discover, accept, and pursue my "shifted dreams" as Molly eloquently put it.) Surely Dusti could have realized how offensive it was to say that ANY child, regardless of their abilities, might "not be able to give anything back to the world." (Again, the implication being that "giving back" can only occur in certain ways. Everyone has something to offer the world. I think the examples given in the comments here illustrate that.) You don't have to be highly educated on the subject of ableism to realize those things; you just have to be sensitive. Between that kind of language and the fact that Dusti never apologized for (in fact, barely even acknowledged) how offensive it sounded, she came off as very dismissive of the subject. Her other posts seem very well thought out, intentional, and sensitive to issues such as feminism and activism, so why would she want to seem so uninterested in this issue? She says her intention was to write about how she feels "not enough" for a child with a disability, but it came across as exactly the opposite: a child with a disability is "not enough" for her. That's what disappointed me. That's my truth.

  I tried very, very hard not to be judgmental toward Dusti with this comment. As I said, her decisions are her own and they're fine by me. But I cannot remain silent when I see an entire population being bashed — whether intentionally or not. There's a big difference between innocently using the wrong syntax and writing an entire post filled with disrespectful language & ideas. I can forgive the former easily. But the latter is a lot harder. I guess I just hope she learned something more from this experience than "I should be defensive and not open up because people will say mean things to me if I do" — I hope she learned to look inside herself and really examine & challenge her beliefs about disability. I hope she learned to look outside herself, at the wide range of people living with disabilities in this world, and see what they truly have to offer. If not, then I hope at least SOMEONE out there took notice and learned a little about ableism. I know it was not supposed to be the subject of the post, but it NEEDS to be discussed. And I hope it will be explored more in the future on this site, especially for the QLC readers like myself who aren't necessarily healthy and strong and limitless. I can't be the only one who'd like to see more discussion of issues people with disabilities can relate to!

  And finally, thanks for your work on this site, Molly. Not really apropos of anything in this comment, I just felt like it needed to be said too. I recently purchased the Joy Equation (thank you a million more times for name your own pricing!) and I can't wait to get started with it in addition to learning more about myself & others through this blog community.

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